The June meeting of the STS (on Thursday, the 18th) had 5 people attending. John Yates presented a paper titled “Understanding Our Identity in Christ from John 15.” Andy Walters then presented a paper (title?) discussing some of same topics from what he called an “emerging church” point of view, with Brian McLaren, Marcus Borg, Karen Armstrong, and Bishop John Shelby Spong as major influences.
The second paper and comments from the meeting will appear on this blog as soon as they are available.
Sunday, June 21, 2009
Understanding Our Identity in Christ from John 15
by John Yates
delivered June 18, 2009
A. Scope:
Yes, we were supposed to look at Colossians 3 also. I have 3 reasons for eliminating it from tonight’s discussion:
1. I delayed too long in preparing.
2. John 15 has more than enough for us to look at tonight.
3 I really love this passage. It is one of my favorite passages in the Bible, and I am happy to stay here for a while.
B. Purpose:
We will try to derive from this passage an outline of who we are in Christ. The “who” question involves several aspects of personhood and relationships.
C. Method
The paper looks at John 15 within its context (text / book / author / 1st Cent. Christian Church/ the Bible generally), and makes minimal references to other material.
Question: Is this approach legitimate? What safeguards do we have to prevent distortion?
D. The Text: John 15 (vine and branches). We concentrate on verses 1-12, but we also look at the rest of the chapter.
E. Aspects of Our Identity in Christ
This text gives us not just a static picture, but also a kind of story, or at least the set-up for a story. It contains action, players, drama, tensions, etc. We examine here some of the themes of that story.
1. Life: Not only do we derive our physical life from Christ, but he also gives us a “new life,” which includes the ability to respond to him, to grow spiritually, to be conformed to his likeness, and to bear fruit. It also involves a real (i.e., ontic, metaphysical, concrete, active, dynamic) connection to Christ and interaction with him personally. This is a spiritual reality that exhibits itself in changes in our lives.
2. Fruit: The passage does not clearly specify what it means by this fruit. Possibilities include: a life characterized by self-giving love for others; increased depth of spiritual character; the conversion of others to following Christ.
Question: What exactly is the fruit?
3. Character and nature: God conforms us more and more to the image of Christ. This exhibits itself in our relations with each other, but also and chiefly with God. Thus our lives become more and more self-consciously relational and we look to God as the source of all our earthly good.
4. Abilities and freedom: This union with Christ implies communion with him, security in him, a connection with others who are connected with him (and thus the Church), and the ability to bear fruit. Others?
5. Abiding: What kind of activity is this? The sense of the verb is to denote the home-place where one dwells, and thus a picture of habit, steadfastness, belonging, and intimacy. Further, it is an activity, just as one chooses (whether consciously or unconsciously) to return to the same place every night for a meal and sleep.
Does this picture mean that the one abiding in Christ knows that it IS Christ in whom he abides? Or could the picture include the idea that some people REALLY abide in Christ, as evidenced by their love of neighbor and moral lives, but they don’t know that it is Christ in whom they abide?
Jesus isn’t trying to set out a comprehensive systematic theology here. He is telling this small group of followers what they need to do. The text as such does not address whether some aspects of this lesson also apply elsewhere. It does bring up many very interesting questions that it doesn’t answer.
Question: What are the details of “abiding”?
6. Relationships: Being alive and being a person entails relationship and interaction with other persons and forces. This passage briefly but profoundly looks at several different relationships that we have as a result of being in Christ.
6a. Relationship with Christ: All of our previous comments have already expanded on our relationship with Christ, so we won’t add anything here.
6b. Relationship with other Christians: The branches are connected with each other by virtue of being connected with the vine. He calls us his friends (verses 13-15), so how can we not be friends of each other, also? He commands us to love one another (v. 17), so that our relationships with each other also echo our relationship with him.
6c. Relationship with the world: The world, i.e., that system of existence that tries to live independently of God, hates the Word of God, this One who embodies the message that our existence cannot avoid depending on God, that God has not and will not abandon it, and that God continues to claim all his creation as his own. The world killed Christ. It will also hate us. Our response must also reflect that of Christ, namely, to love those who hate us.
6d. Relationship with God the Father: This is even more frightening than our relationship with the world, and yet ultimately consoling and life-giving. That the Creator and Upholder of existence and being should turn his personal attention to us—how can that be anything but scary? He “prunes” us, as a vine-dresser prunes grape vines. That has to be painful and frustrating and scary at the time. But he does it from love, with our interests at heart. And Jesus goes on in the next chapter (16:27) that God the Father himself loves us. This claim alone has more content than we can possibly unpack tonight, or even through eternity.
F. Closing Remarks:
The richness and profundity of this chapter defeats my attempts to summarize it in a few minutes. I hope that these hints at its meaning will provoke you to profitable contemplation and thanksgiving to the God who himself loves us in such a way that he gives himself to us in the person of his Son, Jesus Christ, and leads us by his own Spirit.
Amen.
delivered June 18, 2009
A. Scope:
Yes, we were supposed to look at Colossians 3 also. I have 3 reasons for eliminating it from tonight’s discussion:
1. I delayed too long in preparing.
2. John 15 has more than enough for us to look at tonight.
3 I really love this passage. It is one of my favorite passages in the Bible, and I am happy to stay here for a while.
B. Purpose:
We will try to derive from this passage an outline of who we are in Christ. The “who” question involves several aspects of personhood and relationships.
C. Method
The paper looks at John 15 within its context (text / book / author / 1st Cent. Christian Church/ the Bible generally), and makes minimal references to other material.
Question: Is this approach legitimate? What safeguards do we have to prevent distortion?
D. The Text: John 15 (vine and branches). We concentrate on verses 1-12, but we also look at the rest of the chapter.
1"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. 11These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. 12This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.
E. Aspects of Our Identity in Christ
This text gives us not just a static picture, but also a kind of story, or at least the set-up for a story. It contains action, players, drama, tensions, etc. We examine here some of the themes of that story.
1. Life: Not only do we derive our physical life from Christ, but he also gives us a “new life,” which includes the ability to respond to him, to grow spiritually, to be conformed to his likeness, and to bear fruit. It also involves a real (i.e., ontic, metaphysical, concrete, active, dynamic) connection to Christ and interaction with him personally. This is a spiritual reality that exhibits itself in changes in our lives.
2. Fruit: The passage does not clearly specify what it means by this fruit. Possibilities include: a life characterized by self-giving love for others; increased depth of spiritual character; the conversion of others to following Christ.
Question: What exactly is the fruit?
3. Character and nature: God conforms us more and more to the image of Christ. This exhibits itself in our relations with each other, but also and chiefly with God. Thus our lives become more and more self-consciously relational and we look to God as the source of all our earthly good.
4. Abilities and freedom: This union with Christ implies communion with him, security in him, a connection with others who are connected with him (and thus the Church), and the ability to bear fruit. Others?
5. Abiding: What kind of activity is this? The sense of the verb is to denote the home-place where one dwells, and thus a picture of habit, steadfastness, belonging, and intimacy. Further, it is an activity, just as one chooses (whether consciously or unconsciously) to return to the same place every night for a meal and sleep.
Does this picture mean that the one abiding in Christ knows that it IS Christ in whom he abides? Or could the picture include the idea that some people REALLY abide in Christ, as evidenced by their love of neighbor and moral lives, but they don’t know that it is Christ in whom they abide?
Jesus isn’t trying to set out a comprehensive systematic theology here. He is telling this small group of followers what they need to do. The text as such does not address whether some aspects of this lesson also apply elsewhere. It does bring up many very interesting questions that it doesn’t answer.
Question: What are the details of “abiding”?
6. Relationships: Being alive and being a person entails relationship and interaction with other persons and forces. This passage briefly but profoundly looks at several different relationships that we have as a result of being in Christ.
6a. Relationship with Christ: All of our previous comments have already expanded on our relationship with Christ, so we won’t add anything here.
6b. Relationship with other Christians: The branches are connected with each other by virtue of being connected with the vine. He calls us his friends (verses 13-15), so how can we not be friends of each other, also? He commands us to love one another (v. 17), so that our relationships with each other also echo our relationship with him.
6c. Relationship with the world: The world, i.e., that system of existence that tries to live independently of God, hates the Word of God, this One who embodies the message that our existence cannot avoid depending on God, that God has not and will not abandon it, and that God continues to claim all his creation as his own. The world killed Christ. It will also hate us. Our response must also reflect that of Christ, namely, to love those who hate us.
6d. Relationship with God the Father: This is even more frightening than our relationship with the world, and yet ultimately consoling and life-giving. That the Creator and Upholder of existence and being should turn his personal attention to us—how can that be anything but scary? He “prunes” us, as a vine-dresser prunes grape vines. That has to be painful and frustrating and scary at the time. But he does it from love, with our interests at heart. And Jesus goes on in the next chapter (16:27) that God the Father himself loves us. This claim alone has more content than we can possibly unpack tonight, or even through eternity.
F. Closing Remarks:
The richness and profundity of this chapter defeats my attempts to summarize it in a few minutes. I hope that these hints at its meaning will provoke you to profitable contemplation and thanksgiving to the God who himself loves us in such a way that he gives himself to us in the person of his Son, Jesus Christ, and leads us by his own Spirit.
Amen.
Wednesday, June 17, 2009
Announcement of 4th meeting-June '09
The June, 2009, meeting of the Sidewalk Theology Society will occur tomorrow night at 7:30 p.m. (!!! sorry for the late notice) at Delaney's pub (next to the Celtic Tavern, which is at 18th & Blake in lower downtown Denver). We will revisit the topic of our identity in Christ, focusing on John 15:1-12 and Colossians 3:1-6. We want to emphasize the practical implications of this topic. Bring a bible for easy reference to these passages.
The patron saint for the evening is John Donne (1572-1631). Poet, preacher, and dean of St. Paul's, London, he wrote
No man is an island. entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
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